"I think astrology is not about getting fame by predicting some negative event. Astrology is about guiding someone, to help people." - Mahendra Sharma (Tweet)
I first interviewed today's guest back in 2015, where he predicted the Dow Jones Index would go to 32,000...a bold call back then. Mahendra Sharma is an astrological investor with an amazing track record of accurately predicting market fluctuations. He has spent his career studying astrological charts and conveying those findings, along with his understanding of human behavior, into a lucrative business giving advice on when to sell and when to hold various commodities, bonds, and currencies. His latest book on 2021 Financial Prophecies will be released in January.
Thanks for listening and please welcome back to the show our guest Mahendra Sharma.
In This Episode, You'll Learn:
- How Mahendra got into astrology
- Why he relocated to Kenya as a young man
- Why Mahendra pivoted to predicting the global markets
- Why Mahendra stopped predicting big world events after 9/11
- How he built his financial astrological charts and what he is looking for
- How astrological charts are in some ways similar to other statistical based investment approaches
- How human behavior fits into the astrological process
- Mahendra's prediction of Tesla from 2018
"The truth about it is money plays a central role in this life, and we can do a lot of good things with it." - Mahendra Sharma (Tweet)
- What are Mahendra's predictions for 2021
- What trend the European equities markets will follow
- Why Mahendra sees an issue with the Euro as we approach 2024
- The interesting correlation between the year 2021 and the Fibonacci sequence
- Mahendra's interesting prediction about Gold for the year 2052
- Where Mahendra sees the $Dollar bottoming out
- What commodities stand out to Mahendra
- Mahendra's prediction for a potential Bitcoin CRASH in early 2021
- Why investors should be careful after 2024
Connect with Financial Astrology:
Visit the Website: mahendraprophecy.com
Call Financial Astrology: +1-805-403-4781
Follow Mahendra Sharma on LinkedIn
"What I am seeing now, today, definitely the Dow will hit 32,000. There is no doubt about it." - Mahendra Sharma (Tweet)
The following is a full detailed transcript of this conversion. Click here to subscribe to our mailing list, and get full access to our library of downloadable eBook transcripts!
I will recommend, as I said, 2026. That will be the right time to invest in the cryptocurrency because I think many of the central banks in the world; they will come out with the cryptocurrencies.
Imagine spending an hour with the world's greatest traders. Imagine learning from their experiences, their successes and their failures.
Imagine no more. Welcome to top traders unplugged, the place where you can learn from the best hedge fund managers in the world. So you can take your manager due diligence or investment career to the next level. Before we begin today's conversation, remember to keep two things in mind. All the discussion we'll have about investment performance is about the past and past performance does not guarantee or even infer anything about future performance.
Also, understand that there's a significant risk of financial loss with all investment strategies, and you need to request and understand the specific risks, from the investment manager, about their product, before you make investment decisions. Here's your host veteran hedge fund manager. Niels Kaastrup-Larsen.
Hey everyone, and welcome back to another edition of Top Traders Unplugged where today I'm joined by Mahendra Sharma, who is the founder of Mahendra, Prophecy Publications. Today we are really going to take a look into the future and what the markets have in store for us. So first off, Mahendra, thanks so much for coming back to the podcast.
I'm excited about our conversation, how you are doing and whereabouts in the world am I talking to you from?
Thank you very much. It is my pleasure. Right now I am in India, a mistake due to these travel restrictions. So, I don't know, maybe [it will be] a few months that I'll be here, until the travel restrictions get lifted.
Yeah, yeah, but normally you reside in the U. S., as I recall.
Yeah, since the last 15 years I'm based in Santa Barbara.
Very nice, very nice. Now, it's been five and a half years since you were on the podcast. So a lot of things have happened since [then]. It almost feels like we're living in a different world when you look outside and you see what's going on.
Last time you raised a few eyebrows, I have to admit, when you made some big calls on things like Facebook, which we may come back to later. I'm very excited to introduce a lot of our new listeners to your way of looking at the markets. Now, of course, as many of my listeners will have heard me say, over the years, it is impossible to forecast the future, or the markets, and therefore you should follow a rules based investment strategy that does not rely on predictions.
I have to admit that I have come across a few exceptions, and you being one of them, where I just have to say that you are right so often that it can't be just luck. So I think we'll have a lot of fun today. I think having someone like you on the show today is important because I feel, at least, that we're standing in front of some major changes in the world and the markets.
It will be super interesting to see what you see on that point. So, Last time we spoke, I was very upfront with you. I said, I don't know anything about astrology or financial astrology, myself. So, I apologize in advance if I use some terms that are neither here nor there.
Before we dive into the markets, perhaps you can just remind our listeners a little bit about your background and how you learned your craft that you are practicing today. Just to give them a little bit of context for our conversation.
Sure. I started astrology at the age of eight because of my grandfather's poor eyesight. I was just helping him, and he used to ask me a few questions [such as] what is written and which planet is in which house. So, I used to just help him. Then slowly, slowly, it just started building interest within me.
I used to see that my grandfather's predictions used to be very accurate. So, at the age of 11, 12, when I was young, I started reading people's charts and people used to get very fascinated because of my young age, as well as how I read the astral chart. So, yeah, so then slowly I became a professional astrologer and it was my source of earning money. I came from a very, very normal, middle class background. So, this was nice income for me in my school days, as well as for my college days.
Then things started changing when, in 1991, when I moved to Africa, Kenya, because a few of my clients took me there. I settled down there because of one big thing that happened in Kenya. As soon as I landed, within five days, I gave an interview and I predicted the USSR collapsing, disintegrating. That [exact event] happened within 36 hours. Everyone, the whole country was in shock (politicians, the media, diplomats) at how this young boy predicted the disintegration of USSR.
The media kept asking me, and my friends said, “Mahendra, it looks like this country wants you here.” And I said, okay, fine. That's how I settled down in Kenya. I just went for a 10 day holiday, but then I settled down in that country. I love that country, and the people started loving me.
What happened then was that I used to read people's charts, and I used to write many predictions, international predictions, but predictions used to come true, but there was no… If I predicted something negative, nobody was able to save something. If I said that there would be a terrorist attack, or if I said there would be some climate disaster, nobody used to do anything about it. You know? People would talk about it, and they would say, "Okay, Mahendra, you were right, you were right." But there was not really any benefit.
So, I said, no, I want to use this subject where I can help people. The financial market came into mind and I said, "If I am able to predict the financial market trends, then maybe the people may be able to make money, the masses will able to make money, and I'll able to make money. That's how I stopped reading people's charts and I started the Wave of Nature theory, where I started predicting about the market trends. The first major predictions I made, in 1995, 1996, I saw a huge technology bubble coming in and I recommended that people invest in technology, software, and internet stocks. I, myself, invested a small amount of money there.
Within the next three, four years I made a fortune out of it and the people made a fortune out of it. I was very fortunate to predict the crash of the technology stocks and internet stocks in early 2000. I was very fortunate. I told people to get out and people did. That's how my journey as a financial astrologer started.
In 2001, I came out with my first book because everyone started asking, “Mahendra, what is next now? Okay, [in the] technology crash we made money, where do we invest now?" I said, okay, fine. Now we're going to do something. That's how my 2001 book got born. In that book, I said that the era of the commodity is starting; the era of the vol of the dollar is starting.
That's what happened. People started listening and people started investing. I was very fortunate that, while I was in South Africa, people from USA, [in particular] one of my very good friends, Bill Murphy, from GATA. He talked about my predictions. Everyone from the USA started searching about my work, "Who is this boy and why is he predicting that gold is going to $1,800, and silver is going to $50?"
This was in 2001, 2002. So, then a lot of people started following my work and I started writing. I was very fortunate to predict the fall in global equity markets, financial stocks and banking stocks in the crash of 2008. Those predictions came true. In addition, many hundreds and hundreds of other predictions have come true.
It is very interesting regarding one prediction that I made on CNBC, with one of the CNBC contributors, about the market bottoming out on the fifth of March, 2009. That was dead on right, completely. I was even shocked that the market really bottomed out on that day.
I predicted that the Dow may go to 32,000. That interview is still on my website. So, it has been a very interesting journey, and I have recommended people to stay with the market from 2009. I predicted that one of the most beautiful bull markets was starting, where people could create a huge amount of wealth.
Still, I am recommending people to stay long although the market is very close to 32,000 - the Dow Jones. Let's see what happens next.
Yeah, we'll come to that, we'll come to that much later and there's some good stuff in there because I certainly also want to quote some of the things you said when we spoke five and a half years ago.
I can certainly attest to people because I've received, not your paid newsletter, but a lot of the free stuff you give away as well. I will attest that you have been incredibly bullish for many years. So, absolutely we'll get to that in a second.
I want to just stay with these... I know you said you stopped predicting these big world events, which is understandable. I fully understand the reasoning for that. I'm just curious; one thing is that you may not write about it. You may actually still do some work about these things. I don't know. I'm, I'm curious whether COVID-19 was something that you had on your radar, so to speak, or something of the sort last year when you were doing your work?
Just a small note that I want to say. When I launched my first book in South Africa, in 2001, I launched on the ninth of September, 2001. In that interview with the Bob Mobena, in South Africa, I said that I see extensive terrorist attacks against the USA and buildings collapsing. The book clearly had a note that Afghanistan might be involved with the attack.
After two days, the 11th of September happened. It was, I think, the saddest day of my life. I wondered why I predicted this? I don't want to predict something where people are dying, where there is a lot of pain and all these things. So, that was my last international prediction about anything about attacks or people dying. I don't want to predict all those sad events. So, that was my last sad prediction and then I stopped predicting anything about the world.
Let's talk about COVID. The [events of] 2001, 9/11 really changed my life. I think astrology is not about getting your fame by predicting some negative event. Astrology is about guiding someone; to help people, especially the masses. I see energy in the money.
If everyone is happy, if they are doing well, then I think they can take care of their family. They can take care of their neighbors. They can take care of their society. People can do a lot of things with the money. Many people might be, "Oh, we don't like money." I think the truth about it is that money plays a central role in this life. We can do a lot of good things with money: I think a lot of charity, a lot of helping needy people. So, money plays an important role.
Okay. Let me come back to COVID. The 2020 predictions book, when I was writing it I said that from February 16th, I think, to the 22nd of March, the market was going to remain very volatile – a drastic fall may come. Then, I said that from the 22nd of March, onward, the market will bottom out and the market will make a rally until the end of 2020.
Let me tell you that I never saw COVID. But, one of the articles, 10 years back, when I was writing, I mentioned about one of the most drastic or worst diseases was coming to this planet, and that it may change people's lives. It will be the event of the century. So, I think that might be this one, but let me tell you very honestly, that I never predicted that COVID-19 was coming. I saw, 10 years back, that some horrible disease is coming on the planet and the whole world will be affected by that. I hope this is that COVID and we may not see it again or something like this again in our lifetime. But yes, I never saw COVID.
But definitely the financial market predictions were so accurate, so accurate. I couldn't believe it, myself, that each and every line of 2020 - every cycle, every monthly cycle was so accurate. So I get it. So, our thanks goes to the astral cycles and the Wave of Nature.
I'm just a reader, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. It's fascinating. We'll get into that a little bit more. I wanted to, again, just before we get into those things again, for context, when people hear about financial astrology, there are many different ways that people try to predict the markets. I'm just curious, for example, if you take something like technical analysis, you give two different technical analysts the same chart and they come to completely different conclusions, right? Is that the same in, in astrology where people can look at, and I imagine (I might be using different, wrong terms here), but you have some kind of chart you look at and then it's really up to the reader to get to the right conclusions, not necessarily the chart itself. How does it work?
Yes, I think we have to, Niels, remember one thing that we (all individuals) are unique. We're 6 billion, 7 billion in populations. Everybody is different from each other. We are all unique. The way we think, the way we interpret anything, and especially subjects like astral cycles or astrology, it is completely different for every individual.
Each and everyone, they also have their astral time cycle. If they are going through the great astral time cycles then they may be able to predict something very accurately. If anybody who is reading the technical chart, if his astral cycle is good, that means his mindset is good - mind, body and soul. So his energy is in the right direction. So, he may be able to predict, spot on, a technical analysis or anybody like an economist or anybody.
So, it is about their own astral cycles that also matters in life as to how he or she is able to predict. Even though I may be the expert, one time I made a wrong predictions in 2005, the end of 2005, when I was going through a negative time cycle. So it happens in life, but you need to also (one needs to also) watch their own time cycle, what they are going through.
I will always try to not predict during the Scorpio moon. In my own theory, I have found out that whenever I predict during the Scorpio moon, there is a 99% chance that I am going to be wrong. So, it’s better not to predict during that day and not to misguide people. That's important.
So, I think, yes, the chart astral cycle chart and the combinations of all the planetary movement on certain days, these will be the same. But, the interpretations are completely different with each individual - how they read, how they see. There are millions of combinations in the astral cycles. Every second, planets are moving.
How you read those movements. That's very, very important. Let me tell you that I spend around, I can say, eight hours in a day just studying astral cycles and I've been doing this since the age of eight. Especially with the financial market, I think I'm dedicating (since 1995) eight hours in a day just sitting alone and doing the study and research. Trying to go back into the past and see why something went down, why something went up and keep trying to match those times and astral cycles about why this has happened and see what I find. So, if you take a hundred years chart, many times there are similarities: you may see a trend 10 times gold going higher, 10 times gold going lower.
So, when the major 10 times move came, what were the corresponding similarities in the planetary movements? That's how I slowly, slowly built this astrology subject for the financial markets. And I, I can see, today, that this subject, for the medium and longer term, I think it gives you a mind-boggling accuracy. I see my past record, maybe short-term many times I may be wrong (for the short-term, for very short-term predictions), like in one month, two months, sometime. But overall, if you said, "Mahendra, in the last 25 years of doing these financial market studies, how accurate were you?" I can say medium to longer term, I think over 95%. Really, I amaze myself with how this subject is able to be guided so well.
I think that's really helpful for people to understand because I also work in an industry where you use quant models. I actually find it really interesting and I did not know what you just explained about you looking for patterns. It's almost like you're also looking for some kind of statistical evidence that, when these things happens, then you're likely to see this outcome. It’s exactly like we do, but we do it differently. I think, actually, that's really helpful for people because, trust me when I say that it is difficult to compel people to trust in these things, because they can't see into the “black box”. They don't know exactly what it is that's happening. So, I think that's super interesting.
I want to just ask you one more question before we dive into the prediction, because I think this will also be instrumental for people and that is, you talk about (as far as I can recall), you talk about that, in your work, human behavior plays a role and I think it comes into the Wave of Nature. Also, people will know, from the podcast, that in trend following (which we do statistically, you do it in a different way - we do systematically), basically, trend following has worked for more than 50 years, some people will say for 800 years, because of human behavior. So tell me just a little bit about how human behavior fits into your world. (Our audience knows how to fits into our world.)
Yes, so, human behavior... In the astral cycle there are the 12 houses in the Zodiac. There are the nine planets in our Vedic astrology, and there are the 27 Nakshatras, we call it. Then we divide by the four, and four, and nine.... There are so many divisions we can do, but overall, the major Zodiac signs are the twelve.
So, [as an example,] out of a hundred people there are eight people in a group. So, when the astral combinations that represent these [eight] powerful people start positively, they start acting positive. They give interviews, people start following them, and then the masses also start following them. It just creates a wave. [For example,] in 2001, when I was predicting about the gold market bullish trend, hardly any were talking. Then, in 2002 when the gold started moving higher than a hundred people came; then a thousand people came; and then the media; and then every channel started covering gold prices and gold trends. That's how the awareness started. That's how the people started watching gold.
The wave starts when the majority, more than 50% of the people, start thinking in those directions, which the planets forced them to because the Moon controls the mind, and Mercury controls the intellect, and the sun controls your soul. Jupiter controls your spirituality as well as money matters. So, when all these planets, when they start influencing people, and if the gold astral chart is very positive, then these people get attracted towards it.
Some people's astral chart is negative. They believe that, no, gold won't go up, and they will short the gold and they will lose money. Gold is the same instrument but one group is making money and one group is losing money. [This is true] even with the stock market or any stock, or anything. Sometime, when the time is negative for that instrument, people will start buying and that instrument will start going down.
There are so many combinations, so I created a Wave of Nature theory where I try to understand how a measure of people will be thinking (due to current planetary movement). [It’s about putting together] these current planetary movements; [plus when the number of people thinking along these lines] will be more than 50%, 60%; [plus] when (for this instrument) the time is positive or negative. It will able to attract the people, or it will able to repel people who refuse to believe. That's what I think is very, very important about every individual cycle. If your cycle is negative, you won't be attracted. You will say, "No, this is not a good thing.”
I'll give you a very, very interesting example about Tesla.
Yeah, in 2018...
I think a lot of people are interested in Tesla.
Yeah, in 2018 many people ask me, "Mahendra, you have been predicting about Tesla, and Tesla was falling?" So, I came out with a very interesting article. It is on my website as well as on my LinkedIn page and so many other people also published that same article.
I said that if Elon Musk survived July, 2018, without going down financially, then Tesla will become one of the most important and richest companies on Wall Street, and Elon Musk will become one of the five top richest men in the country. So, I said that if, by July, if this company survives, go and invest in Tesla. Go buy aggressive positions in Tesla, because Tesla is going to go 10, 20, 50, or a hundred fold higher." At that time the stock was struggling around $200, somewhere there. Because of Elon Musk’s chart, and because of the Tesla chart, I was able to predict this. Then, those who were lucky, they believed it.
And those who are not lucky they said, "No, no, no, no, no. This may not happen."
And that's exactly right. Mahendra, I read that stuff when it came out, and I don't invest in stocks, so it's not that I want to, but I'm interested in it and I'm interested in Tesla. There are so many people in Twitter land that are interested in Tesla. You can find so many arguments for why that company should, probably, be worthless, if you listen to all the stories. And then you come out with something like this. I can kind of understand why people are incredibly skeptical if they hear someone say, “If you survive this, you're going to be one of the richest men in the world.” But you did say it, so, kudos to you.
Now, I think with all of that context, let's dive into some other things.
What I thought that I would do, today, Mahendra, is that I'm going to read a few excerpts from our conversation five and a half years ago, and then we'll see how it all went. But also, then, on from there, you talk a little bit about 2020, maybe, and, for that particular market or sector, what 2021 looks like. Of course I will encourage everyone to go and buy your 2021 book, when it comes out, because it's always better to see it for yourself.
Anyway, back in 2015 (and I'm going to paraphrase a little bit because you already mentioned some of it), you did mention that you had the conversation with Jack Bouroudjian, from CNBC as a CNBC contributor. You said to me, "I explained to Jack that you saw that the markets were bottoming (this is back in, in February, March, 2009), and the market was going to 32,000."
Then, you go on to the conversation with me. And you basically said to me that, "I am still very confident that..." (I can't even remember where the Dow was at the time), but, "I'm very confident that the market will hit 32,000." Clearly, we're getting close, Mehendra. Also, I think you did say back then, you said, " So I think there's a technological revolution, which I predicted in 1996, if you take it 30 years to 2026 will be the second revolution. 1995 was the beginning of the first five-year cycle. Technology crashed. Technology is back again. Now, you know it meant it was (and I said to many of my close friends) that technology is going to rebound again. The time is coming soon."
So yeah, it's difficult sometimes to read a transcript, but that's, that's what you said. So, I think you're talking about another sort of few years for technology, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, tell us where we are with stocks, and 2020, and 32,000 on the Dow, and all of that good stuff.
Yes, I think the very important thing I would like to say, today, is that in 2014, 2015 and 2016, when I was talking about [this] I said that people have to... (the economists and the analysts, or bankers), they have to revise the valuation method of their stocks.
I kept talking about that. You know, people were talking, "Mahendra, this is the issue to 2025. You know, this is too expensive." Even in 2015 people were telling me that, "Mahendra, stocks are too expensive. Apple is too expensive. Amazon is too expensive. Netflix is too expensive." And I said, "Guys, why you are so dumb?" I really used those words, even to the powerful people. I said, "Why are you behaving so dumb? This is a new era, a new world, a new demand, a new way of life starting. So forget about the [past] value systems. You have to revise your value system. You have to revise the method of valuation in the equity markets.
People are making errors, and those errors are costing them. Because of those errors many people were not able to buy into this bull market of the last 10 years.
Initially, it was OK, initially people bought it in 2009, 2010. But, then after 2012, 2013, they said, "Oh no, this is expensive." I get so many emails and I go through many emails.
So, I think the one thing... Even today, I'm still saying that people have to be very, very careful when they say it is expensive. Yes, and sector by sector is a different story. Definitely, for many other sectors the valuation systems may work - the old valuation method, but the world is changing very fast.
I feel a little bit fortunate that I am able to pick every area very accurately. If you see in 2013, 2014, when I was talking about the Cloud stocks being so high and the analysts were still not able to recommend those stocks. So, so what I'm seeing now, today, the one thing that is that, definitely, Dow will hit 32,000, there is no doubt about it.
The equity market may move higher. There are always... Within a trend there are always short term down trends if the negative cycle comes, then there are always downward trends. But, the future prospects of the global equity markets still looks fantastic, at least for the next three years. After that, yes, after that, there are some signs that the volatility is going to come.
Maybe, in 2026 technology may crash, or there will be huge crash in the equity markets. We don't want to go that far at this stage. At this stage, through your podcast, I don't want to reveal too much about 2021, but surely one should watch device stocks - medical device stocks. I have been very bullish on those device stock splits in the last three years, four years, but now that the era is coming, which is one of the most beautiful eras where every investor must have medical device stocks in their portfolio. That, I think, is one of the most beautiful and biggest bull markets to come.
Even if markets go sideways, these stocks can outperform the markets and keep outperforming markets. So, that's the one that I think, out of the, let's say, five golden eggs. That is one of the golden eggs I'm giving you. Medical device stocks I see. Because, Saturn is currently going through Capricorn. After Capricorn, it will be in Aquarius, and then Pisces. This is the one of the most beautiful times of a cycle. Even the device stock can keep going higher for the next 10 years. So, I think it's a very interesting time in this cycle that is coming for the investors.
You have to be investors who are very, very specific about what area you choose. Definitely in the growth area I still recommend (in the technology area), I still recommend biotech - that is what I still recommend. We will talk about the commodities.
At this stage, I don't see much worry. Definitely, those stocks are running very sharply higher. Lately, electric car company stocks, like many new stock that came from China. Many USA, company related, electric car stocks are moving aggressively higher - like 300%, 400% higher. But, people have to be invested; have to be a little bit careful. Surely, that is a future play, but you have to pick the right stocks at the right price and, I think, you will always make money. You will always clear wealth if you focus on the medium to longer term.
That's what I have seen in the last 25 years. People made a fortune by staying longer term rather than speculating on the short term.
Niels: Sure, and so, since you brought up Tesla specifically, obviously, that has gone up significantly over that period of time. (Not that I, necessarily, want to go through single stocks or anything. we don't have time for that.) But I, I know the whole world, I think, is watching Tesla, it seems at least. Do you have any particular views on Tesla going into 2021 after this massive run-up already, so to speak?
Yes, sure, because when it started moving higher, if you saw, my last year target was $1,000 in 2019, which was achieved in 2019. Then, I raised my target to $2,500. It was achieved at $2,500. Then I raised my target to $5,000, because now the stock has split. So, now it's around $400. So, maybe [it will go] another $400 higher from here which is very much possible. I am not worried about the short term volatility. Elon Musk's chart is great and the Tesla chart is great. So, I may say that, if I believe in my theory, and because this theory has provided great, accurate predictions, then I think my next target will be $800 for Tesla.
Now, what's interesting is... I want to ask you a little bit about other markets than just the U.S. Clearly Europe, where I'm based, has not done nearly as well as the U.S. in terms of equity markets. Talk to me a little bit about Europe in general and whether or not you actually, also, are still quite bullish for European equities. I bring this up now, maybe, because I remember, from our conversation (and we can look at that later), that you were quite concerned about the Euro as a currency, I think at the time, especially coming into 2022, 2023, I think from memory. So, just talk to us a little bit about that.
Yes, definitely European markets are going to follow the USA market trend. In 2011, 2012 that was a different time, when these crises were happening: the financial crisis - what was happening with Spain and Greece, Ireland, and all those. So, then the market acted differently. Many of these [European] markets underperformed compared to the USA markets.
Lately, I think, they have been following USA equity market trends. Why do we see this with USA stocks? Because everyone is focusing on Amazon, Tesla, Apple, and Microsoft. In Europe they don't have those kinds of companies. There are definitely great companies in Europe, but also all the European traders can trade the USA equity markets. So, I think I don't see any problem with that.
Surely, Europe is going to do well. I think the economy is going to do very well. A big economic recovery is coming in Europe. People will say, of course, after the COVID and after any war. But I see that the next three years is going to be a fantastic time for the European equity markets. Investors will make a lot of money in Europe. I won't recommend that anyone go short in the European markets or European equity markets. They will perform par, along with the USA markets. So, definitely in the next three years, three and a half years, is a fantastic time for Europe. Of course, there are some problems coming, and you are very right. I talked about this in 2015 that some crisis will come in 2024 with the Euro.
That's the only small problem I see. That's the time in, I think 2024, people need to be very, very careful about what currency they are holding. If they see, in the end of 2024, 2025, that some complications or some conflict is starting in the currency markets or in the Euro zone, then that will be the time for people to cash in their money a hundred percent. That's what my astral cycle is showing.
If you see some indications starting around that time, then I think people need to be very, very careful. Then I think Europe can lose, I think, 40% 50% value, and the real estate market can lose huge value. A lot of problems can arise. It may also affect the global equity markets, as well. But, definitely Europe will be in the center. The bond market will be in the center - European bonds.
So yeah, I think over the next three years is the time to make money, but after three years, at the end of 2024, it will be time to watch very, very carefully, especially all the listeners. If you guys see that something is going on then it is better to cash in money and stay on the sidelines. That is my advice.
Yeah, I think people would need to subscribe to your service to make sure they get those warnings. If I look around the world, right now, it looks like many things are going wrong all the time, but it seems not to affect the markets as such.
In my own little world, and not that I don't use this at all, but I find 2021, to me, just seems interesting as a year. A lot of people will be familiar with the Fibonacci numbers, and when you do take 2021, and you start subtracting the Fibonacci chain, well, if you subtract 1, you get 2020 (We can all agree that was a pretty interesting year). If you subtract 3, you get 2018, which was kind of a difficult year as well. If you subtract 13, you get 2008. If you subtract 21, you get 2000. If you subtract 34, you get 1987. If you subtract 55, you get 1966; and if you subtract 89, you get 1932. All of those years were quite interesting years, but not necessarily good years for equity markets.
So, in my own mind (and I have to say that I do follow you on the sidelines), I follow a few other people [as well] that, over the years, I've built up confidence in their work. I have to say you're probably the only one who's bullish right now in terms of equities. But, admittedly, I will say that you've also been, obviously, very right about what's happened, but they really do see trouble ahead.
If we just take one of the very basic types of analysis, that I think most of our listeners will be familiar with, which is Elliot Way, I mean, Elliot Way calls for the end of their … whatever they call it… Grand Master Cycle - whatever the Master Grand Cycle is happening around this time. In fact, they think it may have happened, here, at the end of 2020, which is a huge thing.
So, so it'll be interesting. You don't need to comment on it, but it'll be really interesting to watch. Of course, when your book comes out for 2021, people will get a really good glimpse into your thinking.
I would like to give a small note here. Definitely, we have seen lately that in the last five years, whenever the market fell, they lost their value very quickly and very fast - very quickly. Investors, long-term investors, have been very lucky that the market went down so sharply and that the market recovered, also, very sharply.
So it is not as if slowly, slowly it’s dragging down, dragging down, dragging down over months and months and years and the valuations are going lower and lower. That era has ended, for one thing. A second thing about 2021, surely it will be very, very interesting year. I have already made many notes in my book, but of course there will be a bumpy start to 2021 that I see. There's no doubt about that.
So, yeah, we’re going to talk about that.
I don't see any major crisis coming in 2021. [There will be] a bumpy start but then you have to be very invested. They have to be very, very selective about what they choose. You know?
So I want to just pick up on that because you're absolutely right. That's simply something that, in my industry, has really caused a lot of issues because we're longer term trend follows. So we've had really difficult times in 2018 and 2020 with a quick “crisis” in equity markets and the quick rebound - these V-shaped market moves.
Did you say that you think those kinds of market moves, that era has ended or will these short term, quite fast and quite deep crises; are these the kinds of crises that you think will continue? Are we coming to an end where we, at some point, we'll start seeing slower (let's call them) traditional Bear markets?
No, I, I don't see that kind of the traditional Bear market coming very soon. I don't see it. When it will come, I think is that we are three, four years away from that kind of Bear market, but when that market will be rising that will be the end of the Bullish eras of the global equity markets. [At that point] the market may be sidelined and people can lose huge amounts of wealth because it can remain sidelined for many, many years.
That is, actually, quite interesting because I think, right now, most investors think that market's only go up, but when it does come in two or three years, people have forgotten that equity markets can actually stay 10, 15 years doing nothing.
So again people should pay attention, I think, to Mahendra’s work as that comes closer.
I want to shift to another gear. I want to go to another sector. I want to go to something that you've already touched on, which is gold. Gold is such a big thing for many people. So this is what you told me in 2015, you said, “Yes, I predicted that in 2001, that this is a gold cycle in a 52 year cycle -the 52 year cycle. I tell you something. And this, I have never said before, after 2052, it will be like the death of gold. Gold will become irrelevant, or maybe that nobody will buy it, or there will be some government policies, or something is going to happen and gold will move drastically and it won't be as important a commodity.”
Talk to me, a little bit, about gold today, what you think about gold and where it's going. If you have more thoughts about that 52 year cycle, I would love to [hear your thoughts] (even though I may not be around in 30 years, who knows)?
Yeah. Who knows? Yeah, you and me.
With the gold view, I think the planets provide very good guidance about the gold trends. Since last year, 2019, in February and March we predicted that gold was bottoming out, and then moving toward the 2000 level. In 2020, in (I think) July, June, the months of May, June, we predicted that gold may exceed $2,075. I think last month, we also predicted that that gold may bottom out around the $1,840 level, and then gold may see $2,375 next year. Silver may go, even to $38 - that is our high-side target. Mining stocks may do well in 2021. This is for the short-term predictions. I think people can hang on with their investments. Platinum looks fantastic to me in 2021. It can gain 30%, 35% value.
So, yeah, definitely people will make a good chunk of money in the mining stocks. So, stick with those.
Okay. Let's talk about the year 2052. In 2001, we predicted that this bullish cycle may remain until the 2051. This bullish cycle will end in 2052. I followed this theory with the planetary movements and there are certain combinations that indicate that there will maybe be an economic crisis, or there will be huge crisis in the world. Gold prices may move sharply higher in 2050, 2051. Then the government may come out with restrictions, or maybe the government may come out with some policies where you have to surrender the gold because that has been rising and we need to support ourselves with the gold, or gold may eventually become a currency.
So it’s a very interesting time. Gold may become a currency before that. Already, I said in the few of my letters, previously, it’s a very interesting era for gold starting in 2028. That's the time I think gold can play a key role - far better than, I think, cryptocurrency.
I'll come to that.
Gold still holds an interesting time cycle.
Okay, cool, so yeah, we'll definitely come to the Bitcoin side and crypto, because I've got a few really important things I want to ask you about.
Now, I want to shift gears again. I want to go back to 2015 where we talked at the time. I'm not going to read a long passage of our conversation. You did say, back then, “I expect interest rates to go up drastically in 2016 and 2017. Interest rates can go up by more than one point. I think this is the most amazing trend changing pattern that is going to take place. It may take us a few months, here and there, but I think I will watch these predictions very, very closely. That is what I've been recommending to my close members. Look for higher rates, but this drastic move is going to surprise everyone on this planet. In 2016, 1207, and especially 2017 I think we can go up to 6%, 7%.”
Now, clearly, that has not happened, yet.
So, tell me about that. I do know (because I know from your Facebook predictions) that you do change your predictions from time to time. So, just tell me about interest rates, because that is the market that so many people debate because we cannot understand why interest rates on $19 trillion in bonds, nowadays, are negative. So, where are we in your view, on interest rates?
Yeah I think, after those predictions interest rates went a little bit higher, I think in 2016, 2017, 2018. The fed kept raising the rate by a quarter, and a quarter, and a quarter, and a quarter points.
I think what I see, now, with interest rates, in the next cycle, everything is pointing… It's very interesting, Neils, everything is pointing towards 2024. You were asking about 2021, but I think, if you’re asked me about the financial markets, currency markets, bond markets, commodity markets, everything is going from all angles and going in towards the center. Then, boom, something big is going to happen at the end of 2024, 2025. I think after 2024, interest rates are going to go through the roof. I'm telling you, I think that's my prediction. That is my longer-term prediction about interest. It will be very interesting. Also, Gold is going to go higher along with the interest rates.
Very interesting things will happen, and it will be very difficult for economists and analysts to understand, or to predict because they have been following one pattern. They have a mindset that ‘this’ happened, and that ‘this’ is ‘this’ happening, but everything is really going to go together.
Lately you can see the equity market is moving higher. Gold is moving higher. So, yeah, I think 2024 onward, interest rates are going to go higher.
That's super interesting. First of all, I think it's super interesting that, that everything on your chart, in all these different asset classes something big is coming in a few years time. I think a lot of the people that I follow, even through their different analysis (and as you say, it's not always exactly the same timing and so on and so forth), they also certainly point to something really big happening. What's interesting about what you say: gold going high and interest rates going through the roof, to me that suggests some kind of complete breakdown of trust in government. Those are the things that really point towards that kind of correlation, which we don't often see. So that's interesting. So good, I'm glad we got that out of the way.
We talked a little bit about the Euro, but another big topic for the people that I see talking on the various financial outlets is the dollar. I mean, there’s a camp that is saying the dollar is going to rise because the world is in trouble. You have people saying no, no, the dollar is going to completely collapse and so on and so forth. Where do you sit in this debate, Mahendra?
So far I think, over the last so many years, we have been very accurate on the dollar. So, let's follow that same theory. At this stage, I have been predicting that the dollar may bottom out around the $91 index, may bottom out around the 91 level, which is very, very important, according to my theory.
I do not see the dollar index going below the 89.11 level. So, that's the bottom line. If people want to take a trade for the medium to longer term, they want to convert the currencies or whatever X, Y Z. Also, at the same time, the currency volatility will be there. Dollar may again go to 95, 96, and then may come down to 22 and then may go back to 97. So, there will not be a single sided trend where we predict and take a trade and we stay with that trade. No, you have to be very, very alert. As soon as you see that trend changing, you are to get out. You don't need to stay with that investment.
One thing in the currency market is very, very important and that is emerging market currencies. I think this year the Mexican Peso, the South African Rand, they have done amazingly well. In the coming time, in 2021, I'm giving you one of the best currencies to invest in, which is the Brazilian, Real. I think yeah, that currency can gain 25% to 30% which is huge for any currency market trader. So, that currency can perform very well not only against the Euro, but against the dollar, and against the pound as well. So the Brazilian Real will outperform most of the currencies.
Still, we recommended that the time is coming closer to book some profit in the South African Rand and the Mexican Peso, for the short term. So, yeah, they have gained very nice value - more than 20%. The Rand, I think, gained around 30%, so yeah. So, these are both currencies that will do very well in the next year – the South African Rand and the Mexican Peso.
Just going back to the dollar index, since we are not that far away from 89.11, so to speak. You’re seeing more of a range, it sounds like, you're not necessarily seeing a very strong dollar going back to making new highs above 1.04 or anything like that?
No, no, that is not what’s happening. It will remain... If you read all of this year’s articles, from earlier this year, or my weekly newsletter, you will clearly see that I recommended that people sell the dollar index at 102, and close all the long positions at 102. So yeah, and now it’s 92, around the 92 level - a maximum of one point or a maximum (in the worst case scenario, if something drastic happen), of another two points. I don't see that in the 2021 the dollar index going below the 89 level, no way.
Sure, sure, sure, and by the way, for the people listening, just again, a quote from 2015’s conversation on currencies. Now that Mahendra is repeating that around 2024, or thereabouts, will be a really important time. You said back then, “I think the Euro in 2023, I think I already predicted last year, 2023, it looks like it will be the end of the European Union or Euro Deal.” So, 2023, 2024 was already on your radar back then. It sounds like that that is still a time where the whole Euro project will come under some pressure, to say the least. Time will tell and we'll follow the story, of course.
Let’s jump, just quickly, to some of the other sectors before we come to a close in our conversation today. I certainly wouldn't do justice if I didn't ask you about commodities. We talked about inflation before. One source of where inflation can come from is, of course, the commodities. Which of the commodities, for you, stand out? What do you think about those sectors - both soft commodities and grains?
Yes. In 2020, my view was very negative about the energy markets – the energy markets would underperform. For the rest of the commodities, they remained sluggish. Metals performed very well - all major metals. In 2021 I see grains outperforming. Also, metals will perform very well. I don't see energy performing that well. Oil will have a difficult time crossing $50 at this stage, in the coming time. So, grain and soft commodities I like it. I especially like coffee. Cocoa I like very much. I have been recommending that people buy cocoa. I have been recommending coffee , [I recommend] that all the traders buy coffee in 2021.
We have been recommending buying soybeans and wheat in 2021 because I see some influence from the problems in Australia and then with related problems in Brazil. So these are the two other commodities, we are recommending; regarding corn, not that much, and other soft commodities, not that much.
So yeah, metals, they will remain very volatile. They may rise quite sharply and then they may fall very sharply. So, traders have to be very, very careful with any sharp rise. They should book profit, then stay on the sideline, and then buy back if they come down.
Our letter, our weekly letter is, I think, one of the greatest services we have. People love it. Wall Street people love it. I think if people can afford it, they can buy those services.
But yeah, metals will perform well, but in patches. Grain can outperform throughout the year, and coffee and cocoa can outperform.
That would a nice change for trend followers because they have been stuck in ranges, I think, for the last five years. So, that would be nice.
Now, I want to go back and touch on Bitcoin, right? I'm not a Bitcoin expert. I'll say that for sure. However, it is something that everybody talks about. It's interesting when you talked about the human behavior aspect and, when the masses starts talking about it, how it has an influencing effect. To me, looking at it as just a simple observer here, certainly, this year has just looked like that is exactly what has happened to Bitcoin, where more and more people just started talking about it. There are certain, platforms (let's call it) where there are some really big influencers that have talked a lot about Bitcoin. It's obviously it's in scarce supply. There aren't that many free-floating Bitcoin, so, it has moved the price significantly.
However, in the last month or so, I've heard Ray Dalio; I've heard Jim Rogers (the older partner of George Soros); and I've heard someone (with whom you may be familiar with, or may not), a guy called Martin Armstrong who also does cycle work and does AI forecasting, etc., etc. All of these guys have come out and are saying (very much along the line of what you talked about with gold), listen, the Bitcoin may go up, but at some point it becomes so expensive that the authorities are not going to allow it, and they are going to confiscate it. By the way, they are much further down the road with their own central bank, digital currencies than anyone believes. Is there any of this that shows up in your work in terms of something as drastic as, “We're going to confiscate Bitcoin, or we're going to ban it or whatever we do. Oh, and by the way, here are our own digital currencies.”
So, for Bitcoin, I have been receiving so many requests to talk about the Bitcoin. I’m telling you something. One shouldn’t be selling or shorting Bitcoin. Definitely, we are very close to the high, again. It's very interesting to date. I think something major is going to happen on the 20th of February, 2021. That will be the day to watch, I think, in my astral cycle theory. That will be the day that Bitcoin can start a drastic downward trend. If, let's say, Bitcoin fails to drop between the 20th of February and the 27th of February, then Bitcoin can go to $5,000.
OK, so let’s just take that again because I didn't quite hear that. So, you said that if it doesn't drop drastically between… What period are you looking at?
Between the 20th of February and the 27th of February. 2021.
So, that week is crucial, I'm sure a lot of people are going to make notes in their diaries right now.
Oh yeah, that week is so crucial, so I'm just confirming.
So, that week is so crucial. It looks like, from that week, the Bitcoin will go into a crash. It will have a toxic fall. As we talked about, it can have a very volatile trend, currently, but it can still hold value. If, between February 20th and 27th Bitcoin keeps moving higher, then it may test the 50,000, 45,000, somewhere there.
If it fails to move higher, then it will crash. But, I'm not recommending also investing money in Bitcoin because the time for cryptocurrency will begin from the 2027, 2028, somewhere in there. It may get legalize or something may happen. But for the next six, seven years, traders have to be very, very careful. If you like and don't care about the 5%, 10% of your capital, and if you want to invest, then invest that money. But, I wouldn't recommend investing hard earned money there. It’s better that you are buying gold, or buying my favorite stock, Amazon, which may go to even $10,000 in the next three to four years time. So, that says that S&P and NASDAQ are going higher because I already predicted NASDAQ is going toward 25,000.
Well, we didn't hear that, but that's good you mentioned that. So, 25,000 on the NASDAQ? What about the S&P, is that 5,000 you’re looking towards?
Yeah, I said S&P 5,200 to 7,500 - there are chances in the next three years.
Oh my God. The Elliott Wave guys are going to be so disappointed when they listened to this interview. I can assure you.
So, interesting. But just to be sure, on this Bitcoin thing, So, you're not recommending people having Bitcoin, per se, because either prices are going to crash in February, you said, if it doesn't go above that level.
There’s a 99% chance of a crash.
OK, right, OK. I think that's a high enough probability for me to not worry about investing in Bitcoin. What's interesting about that, do you actually see [central banks playing a role in this] because it could crash because central banks come in with their own Bitcoins? Have you seen any signs of that we're just going to have digital central bank currencies coming much sooner than anyone believes?
No, I think there are chances that they may come out with cryptocurrency. There is very much a probability [this will happen], but that time is a little bit far away. I will recommend, as I said, 2026. That will be the right time to invest in cryptocurrency because I think many of the central banks in the world will come out with the cryptocurrencies.
I'm sure, at that time, it won't be a question of us investing. We’ll all be forced to have digital cryptocurrencies, anyways, exactly.
Now, just a few things I've got left that I wanted to pick your brain about today. One thing that I've also picked up from other people, in terms of their expectations, is just volatility itself: that the markets, in general, will see massive volatility that we have not really experienced. Well, we've experienced it this year (some volatility, for sure). We also had, a few years ago, hardly any volatility - certainly in equity markets. Where do you stand on volatility itself?
As I said that somewhere in early 2021, there will be some volatility picking up, and it will pick up very aggressively. So, I think definitely, during the first quarter traders have to be little bit careful if they see the market is behaving abnormally. Then it is better to remain sidelined or maybe have a volatility index in their portfolio, if they still want to hold the stock. So, yeah, definitely, the first quarter, with Venus in the first quarter, I think, five weeks they (the markets) will be very, very interesting, very volatile.
If I keep mentioning things people will not buy my book (laughter).
Right, of course, they will have to go and buy your services. I agree with that completely. I don't know if you do this at all. It's not specifically market-related, but politics, (I can’t remember) Did you write about the U. S. election at all this year and, in general, politics? Maybe we stay U. S. centric because it's such a topical point. Is there anything that you've work you've done on, on that?
This year, no. As I said I stopped writing about politics and especially the political predictions. One thing that I did… I don't want to say that I knew that Biden would win. I don't want to say it because I never said it anywhere, but in my deeper heart, I knew that. The important part is that what I did very, very, very, very carefully and very, very smartly (and that prediction was very accurate), what I said was that it doesn't matter. Whoever wins the elections, the market will move higher. And it made 3,600, you know?
So I gave the hint that regardless of whoever wins, the market is going higher. So, better you stay long in the market rather than trying to short the market. I used to write every letter, ”Do not short the market, do no short the market.”
I think that advice really helped investors with how to trade. That's what I think is important for investors.
Yeah, there are two areas that I have left. You may not want to comment on one of them, because again, as you say you don't do [certain things], but, I can't help not noticing that people like Ray Dalio (because he's done a lot of work in recent years on the new world order) he talks about the great reset. Of course, other people do too, but everybody knows who's Ray Dalio is, so, I’m using him as the figurehead for this. He also keeps leaving hints, and I've seen this from other people doing cycle analysis, etc., etc., of hot war, not just civil unrest in the U. S.
Again, I know you don't necessarily want to predict it, but do you have any comment from your own work? This is pretty relevant for a lot of people if we are entering a time (and maybe it's 2024, who knows) where you see all this happening. Is there anything that you're picking up that might prove Ray Dalio right or wrong?
I think in 2000, in the end of 2024 and 2025 is when I think the people will become restless. I think there will be some serious issues and a lot of things are happening and coming – they are going to come to the real world; they are going to hit us and we will be in shock. I think, as I said that I try to avoid so many negative predictions. I think people need to be very, very careful after 2024. That's the one thing for the show.
Okay. Yeah, that's fine.
Now, nothing to do with people killing each other or anything like that, but you did mention some natural disasters. From what I understand in the things that I read and pick up on is that, for example, the polls are moving. We're actually seeing shifts in the world and that has major effects. Some people that I have seen be right about things they have said even though it sounded unbelievable at the time, but they're very concerned about a few natural disasters such as Mount Fuji, in Japan and also California, as a whole, which is linked to the ring of fire. Is that something, at all, that you… I know you live in California, so, it should be on your radar if it's true. Is that something you worry about?
Yes, there are so many natural disasters that will be taking place on our planet earth between 2026 to 2029, and 2030. Those 4 years will be the disaster years, specifically, with climate or natural disasters. Those disasters will be very, very dangerous, I think. It can really stop the whole world.
That is also, unfortunately, what I hear from other people, even though it is very difficult to comprehend. So again, we will hopefully get a warning from you as we get closer, for those who subscribed to your work.
Mahendra, this was a long list. I've taken a lot of your time, but this is so fascinating. Deep down I think we all want to know a little bit about the future we're heading into whether for ourselves or whether for our kids. So, I can't thank you enough for doing this and being so generous with your time. Do you have a time in your mind for when you're going to release your 2021 book so that people can get excited about it?
Yes. I think, I normally release, always, toward the end of the first week of January. That’s the time, or maybe the second week of January. I always wanted… I like the sun in Capricorn. I try to release during those days because I believe in cycle theory and I want to release and people buy the book and they gain from the book, and they are able to pick up a few good predictions to invest, and that the investment in my book can make them 10 or 20 times or a hundred times the money and I'll be very happy.
If everyone makes money, then I always say one thing, if you are making the money from my predictions, then, please be charitable. Please help needy people.
That's one thing I believe and that is because of the nature that we survive. Always, I have said one thing, and it is a little bit controversial, but we are not alive because of the religion - we are simply alive because of nature.
If I stand in front of my God, and if I stop breathing, I will die in front of my God. So air is one of the most important elements. Air is given to us for the free as part of nature. Water is provided by nature. Light is provided by the sun. So, there are five elements. We are alive because of the five elements.
If there are five different people with different religions they cannot divide the air. If they are working together, they will breathe the same air. Nature never divides anyone. I think we are the source of the religion we create: we respect nature; we respect humanity; and we take care of people.
I think we will love our life. We will love people and we will love ourselves. We will be proud, one day (even if it’s that last day when we will take the last breath). So, that's the message I want to give people. I think that getting involved in not focusing so much on religion as on getting involved in the elements of nature that make you happy. Make nature happy and the nature will make you happy.
Yeah, I've seen you write about this from time to time. So, I know you are very humble about this and you actually do a lot of this to really facilitate that people can do good in the world with the things that they do on the scale that they have.
So, I think on that positive note, I want to say, thanks so much, Mahendra, for this amazing and fascinating conversation. I hope that everyone out there who is listening have taken some notes and will do their best to share and comment on this episode so that a lot of people will hear it.
It's up to you, of course, then to decide whether you want to subscribe to Mahendra’s work, I recommend that you do and go and check it out on his website. We'll put a link in the show notes, of course, for doing so. And with that, we will, of course, hope to have you back. Five years is too long, especially with your predictions, Mahendra. We should do this a little bit more often.
It is always a wonderful, interesting conversation to have you on.
So from me, Niels Kaastrup-Larsen, thanks for listening, and I look forward to being back with you on the next episode of Top Traders Unplugged. In the meantime, go check out the show notes of this episode and the resources you can find, including Mahendras link and, most of all, stay safe, stay healthy and take care.
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