Simon Hunt - Global Macro Series - November 16th, 2022

[00:00:00] Simon

Even as soon as 2027, we move from this warming cycle into this cooling cycle with NOAA actually saying we’re going into a full blown cold cycle. What are we doing with all these EVs and renewables? By the time we get into the cooling cycle, households are going to rebel. Why spend the additional whatever it is to purchase an EV, and to move to renewables when the weather is cooling under natural circumstances, but that’s a different story.

[00:00:53] Intro

Imagine spending an hour with the world’s greatest traders. Imagine learning from their experiences, their successes, and their failures. Imagine no more. Welcome to Top Traders Unplugged, the place where you can learn from the best hedge fund managers in the world so you can take your manager due diligence or investment career to the next level. Before we begin today’s conversation, remember keep two things in mind. All the discussion we’ll have about investment performance is about the past and past performance does not guarantee or even infer anything about future performance. Also understand that there’s a significant risk of financial loss with all investment strategies, and you need to request and understand the specific risks from the investment manager about their product before you make investment decisions.

Here’s your host, veteran hedge fund manager, Niels Kaastrup-Larsen.

[00:01:49] Niels

A new world order is becoming clearer by the day. In our global macro series, we dig deep into the minds of some of the most prominent experts to help us better understand what this new, global macro driven world will look like. We want to explore their perspectives on a host of important issues and hopefully dig out nuances in their work through meaningful conversations.

Our guest today is someone who has a lot of experience from regions of the world that the West is having a challenge with at the moment. It’s a great time to get a peek into what really goes on in these areas of the world and what he believes we should expect. Please enjoy my conversation with Simon Hunt.

Simon, welcome and thank you so much for joining us today for what I’m sure will be an enlightening conversation as part of our global macro series, with some predictions that may shock and surprise some of our listeners. Now, I first came across your work a couple of years ago. I was fascinated by some of the stories and the outlooks that you talked about as this was very different from many of the mainstream narratives that we hear so often.

So I very much look forward to digging into this today. But, since this is your first time on our podcast, perhaps I could ask you to set the stage a little bit and provide a bit of context for our conversation by just telling us a few highlights from your background as this of course is highly relevant for our conversation, and then we’ll dig into lots of the topics afterwards.

[00:03:19] Simon

I started my career in Central Africa in the copper industry. From there I moved to London to join Anglo-American Corporation. From there I helped start up an International Copper Development Association and then I went into the city of London to get some experience. Then I decided I wanted to do something on my own before I got any gray hairs.

So I started up a company called Brook Hunt and Associates, which eventually got taken over by Wood MacKenzie. I’ve been on my own, ever since then, developing a network of friends and uncles with different disciplines that allows me to, very often, make contrarian calls which, for the most part, have proven to be correct. This brings us, really, into this troubled world that we’re now living in because of a combination of the war scenario in Europe and a very highly leveraged financial system is going to give us a few nightmares between now and over the next five years. 

[00:04:53] Niels

And you also speak about (which I actually think I’ve heard you speak on other podcasts to this effect as well, and maybe you can just touch on this) the amount of time you’ve spent in some of the places, that today, are part of this changing world (I don’t want to use the word order necessarily), but just changing world landscape. Can you share a little bit about your extensive time around the places, Russia, China? 

[00:05:24] Simon

I have friends in Russia. I’ve only visited Moscow once where I was privileged to speak before the Academy of Sciences, which is their premier think tank.

But I spent a large part of the last 20 odd years tramping around Asia, particularly in China where I first visited in 1993. Then for the next 15 years I was visiting approximately 80 factories in about 50 different towns and cities every year. Since then, I’ve confined the visits to a fewer groups of people, but those with portfolios that gave me good insights into the economy. 

[00:06:29] Niels

Yeah. Very interesting. Now, I know we have lots of markets to talk about, or events to talk about, and so on and so forth. Actually, before we get to that, I want to start in a slightly different place because I have a feeling that you’re going to share something today that may, as I said in the beginning, may shock some of our listeners.

So, in order to get a little bit of context as to why you have these views, and what you see for the global economy, what you see for the world, really. I wanted to ask a little bit about your process, meaning what do you look at in terms of formulating your forecast, your conclusions?

Are you able to share some of your insights into the process a little bit, Simon? 

[00:07:20] Simon

The processes are multiple. I have, ever since the 1970s, I have watched how the debt levels have been rising. Debt has always been central to my thinking, and then what central banks and governments have been doing.

I have friends and relations all around the world. They feed me with different types of information, which I put into the thinking box, and I come up with conclusions, and then on timing. Then with the extent of turning points, I’ve worked very closely with my technical associate. We’ve worked together for probably 25 years and it has worked very well indeed. That’s Wave Track International. 

We put our thinking together with how they see the magnitude of the changes and the direction of those changes. That’s what brings us to our conclusions. 

[00:08:56] Niels

Yeah. One of the things, and then I’ll move on to some of the more specific things that we’re going to talk about. But again, just finally on your process, because I don’t meet so many people that talk about cycles. Obviously Howard Marks has written a whole book about cycles. There are other people who come out talking about cycles, but not too many. I actually happen to believe in cycles. I’m not always good enough to to work out exactly when they should peak or trough.

I’ve heard you talk about cycles and, I’ll tell you, one cycle specifically that I’ve heard you talk about is the sunspot cycle relating to global warming. I’d love to hear a little bit about whether it’s the same type of cycle analysis you use across all markets or are they different?

Just to give us a little bit of background, because I do think that they are part of or an important part of some of your work. Correct me if I’m wrong in my assessment here. 

[00:10:00] Simon

First of all, there’s the long term Kondratiev cycle. Yeah. Then we have a series of shorter business cycles and they all fit into the long-term cycle.

Unfortunately, many of them are now converging which is going to lead to some of these big shocks that we’re going to see. The weather cycle is extremely important. Climate operates in long-term cycles of 40 to 70 years, and is driven by sunspot activity, volcanic activity, changes in ocean temperatures, all of which are part of these long-term cycle movements.

And we are in the process of moving out of the 40 odd years of warming weather that we’ve experienced, and we are moving into 40 to 70 years of cooling weather. Now, the cooling weather allows the oceans to absorb excess CO2 emissions, and in fact, NOAA and NASA, in a blog that was issued in September, 2020 and has subsequently been withdrawn (for obvious reasons) was stating very clearly that even as soon as 2027, we move from this warming cycle into this cooling cycle. With NOAA actually saying that we’re going into a full blown cold cycle. 

What are we doing with all these EVs and renewables? By the time we get into the cooling cycle, households are going to rebel. Why spend the additional whatever it is to purchase an EV, and to move to renewables, when the weather is cooling under natural circumstances? But that’s a different story.

[00:12:28] Niels

It’s a different story, although it ties into something that we may touch on later, and that is of course, if we are indeed moving into a cooling cycle, that has massive implication for potential food inflation because the extra production we’ve had in, say, grains, across the world in the last 20 years, to essentially meet the demand growth that we’ve seen has actually been helped by the slightly warmer weather.

The growing season has been longer, as far as I’m aware. If we do get into a cooling period now, that could tie in with, I think, much higher prices on food and therefore inflation. Anyway, we’ll come to that. 

I’m going to ask you a very simple question, which I’m sure you’ve been asked a few times recently, and that is, maybe you can talk a little bit about your global macro view at the moment. And if you want to, you can focus on one or two asset classes at a time, because I know you have quite a detailed view on a number of them. If we want to break it down a little bit, we can talk about maybe the most important one, you think right now, and then we can work our way through so we don’t leave out any details. But tell us a little bit about what you see happening, right now, as you and I speak in the fourth quarter, early part of the fourth quarter of 2022, after an already pretty eventful year so far. As people are about to learn, this is probably just the beginning.

[00:14:07] Simon

I think that over the next few weeks you are going to see a dangerous intensification of the war, which is really between Russia and NATO using Ukraine as the proxy. I think that by the end of the year the risk is that it is going to be an out-and-out war between NATO and Russia. I think there’s a real risk that the war will spread beyond the Ukrainian borders.

So, we’re going to have serious consequences of this military intensification at a time when the global financial system, which is highly leveraged, is going to (with central banks tightening credit and raising interest rates), is going to cause severe pain in, what I call, the undergrowth of the global credit system.

So you are going to see pockets of implosions to an extent that probably during sometime over the next three months, we will see central banks being forced to change direction. Instead of tightening they’ll be forced to add liquidity into the system to stop these bombshells from exploding.

Then we will see the dollar coming off its perch, and with central banks turning from tightening to loosening you are going to see a resurgence of inflation accompanied by further increases (and significantly so over the next two years) in energy and food prices.

As you mentioned earlier, food prices risk absolutely exploding upwards. Partly because of exports from Russia and Ukraine of fertilizers and grains, et cetera, being denied to the rest of the world, but also climate changes. We’ve had drought across many parts of the world during the summer, not caused by what people called climate change global warming, but by an underwater volcano at Tonga exploding, which spewed up a lot of vapor into the atmosphere, which circled around the globe.

And that is what has, actually, caused these extreme temperatures. When we get into ‘25, then we get hit by the 90 year Gleissberg Cycle, which in the 1930s caused the Dust Bowl for a decade in the Midwest, which as you know is a very important area for agriculture. Add that all together and you are going to get extreme increases in food prices.

In fact I’ve just picked out a table of the FAO Food Price Index, which was in round numbers 90, average, 95 in 2019; last year 126, this year-to-date is 147; by the time we get into 2024, we have it rising to 185, and even 220 in 2025. The impact of that on households… In parts of the world, poverty is just going to soar.

So all of this basically leads to, with interest rates, we have the 10 year US Treasury yielding over 11% by 2025. That, of course, is going to implode large parts of the global highly leveraged financial system. Add this all together with the war still ongoing. We’re going to have a depression. And a depression very much akin to what, 1929 and 1930 to 1932 was experienced. 

[00:19:45] Niels

What’s interesting about what you’re saying, Simon, is not only is it obviously shocking to some, but let me just go one step back and explain to people that the cycle you mentioned is a drought cycle. This is why it’s very important.

[00:20:00] Simon

You mean on the food cycle.

[00:20:01] Niels

Exactly, It’s a drought cycle, actually, that you mentioned. I just want to make sure people understand that. They may not be familiar with the cycle name itself, but it’s a drought cycle. You’re absolutely right. By the way, already now, we see massive increases in prices over here in Europe.

I saw an article recently where people have picked a basket of goods that they would buy in Germany. that a normal family would buy, and from last year to this year alone, that basket of food and goods were up 39%. It’s completely in line with some of the numbers you mentioned.

[00:19:45] Simon

That’s horrific.

[00:20:52] Niels

Now let’s stay under war for one second more, and then we’ll get into some of the markets. The war, you mentioned that it would expand outside Ukraine, but actually I think you also believe that we are in the third (World War III). War is not just confined to Europe. As far as I understand your work. 

Can you tell us a little bit about what else you might see on that front, and then we can go into how that impacts commodities and other markets around the world. 

[00:21:26] Simon

First let’s take Asia. Obviously Taiwan is a very inverted commerce hotspot at the moment.

I believe strongly that China has no wish to invade or blockade Taiwan. There is a risk that America will take China over the red line by making some sort of announcement such as we support any referendum that Taiwan has for independence. That would force China to make a move, not one that they would want to do.

They are prepared for it, but they have no wish to do it because they feel that given time, an accommodation will be made between the island and the mainland. It comes back to what Deng Xiaoping always said, “The two parties come together in 2028.” 

[00:22:40] Niels

Can I ask you a question about China specifically on that note? Because one of our previous guests, who talks a lot about what he sees around the world in similar lines with you, it’s Peter Zion who recently wrote – his latest book is called The End of the World, is Just the Beginning. One of the claims that he makes, or conclusions he makes, is that if China had to do something militarily they really need to do it soon because of demographics. 

Given your connections and all the time you’ve spent in China, I wonder what you believe their view is on their own demographics. My understanding is that, within not that many years, maybe a decade or two, their population will be significantly smaller than what it is now due to all the policies they’ve had, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How do you see China and demographics and what that might change? 

[00:23:47] Simon

I think there’s one statistic that tells you everything, which is the number of employed people to support retirees. In 1990, there were 14 people for every one retiree. By 2040, there will only be four employed people to support one retiree.

One reason why there is such a focus by the leadership on technology, productivity, and robotics is to get the productivity up. I think that’s the cornerstone of where the growth is going to come from. Let’s go back to one interesting point. Should China be forced to invade Taiwan because the big semiconductor company, TSMC has something like 500 suppliers in Taiwan. At least one of them would be bound to be knocked out. You would have zero production coming from TSMC, which would probably impact America more than it would impact China. 

[00:25:21] Niels

So just staying on current topics, actually, Simon, what do you make of the change in policy?

I’m not a specialist here, but I understand that the US, within the last week or so, has made some pretty big announcements in terms of the policies on semiconductors, and so on and so forth. Maybe you know more about this than I do, but I do think it has an impact and is focused directly on China, essentially.

[00:21:50] Simon

First of all, it’s obviously another example of America trying to curtail China’s growth. So, Beijing knows that there is an economic war between the two countries. Secondly, and I’m not an expert on this either, but reading some expert’s views in China, apparently there are ways around a lot of the moves that have been made by America.

And secondly, China is probably getting, through back channels, a lot of the sophisticated chips from Taiwan. When you consider that there’s something like a million Taiwanese working on the mainland, and Taiwan has been the biggest investor in China since the 1990s. Despite all the political rhetoric, actually, business carries on quite normally, and you can see it in the trade data.

[00:27:06] Niels: 

Okay. Now, just before we move on to the market, so to speak, Simon, are there any other points in the world where you see conflict, because I know war is a big part of what you see in the next few years, actually. Are there any other areas other than Asia and Europe? Are there other areas that we should be aware of? 

[00:27:29] Simon

I think we should keep a beady eye on what is happening in Syria, and what could happen, and how that might expand into Iran. That could create some very dangerous, volatile periods for oil prices. 

[00:27:55] Niels

Okay. All right. 

Let’s move into the markets, Simon. Why don’t we just start with interest rates. I know you’re expecting by 2025, you said 11% plus interest rates, but we are here now. We’ve had the tightening in the US, interest rates have gone up. I think we’re at like whatever we are, 4.5% on the 30 year or maybe a little bit less, around 4% on the 10 year.

How do you see the path to getting to 11%, so to speak? Because if they are going to pivot in the coming months, based on what’s going to play out, according to your analysis, you might think that we may have some relief rallies (let’s put it that way) along the way. Do you have a strong view on the path to these very high rates? 

[00:28:46] Simon

In the very short-term we are actually seeing rates coming down. The point that I would make is the Fed can only control the short end of the curve. It can’t control the long end of the curve. The market is much bigger than the central bank, and given what inflation will be doing.

You are going to see US CPI higher than the 1980 figure of 13.5%, which tells you that our 11% is possibly conservative. With rising inflation, falling dollar sharply, the long end of the curve is going to be rising very sharply next year and through into 2025. 

[00:29:42] Niels

Okay. Okay. Now let’s talk a little bit about equity markets.

Because a lot of people, of course, think of investing just looking at equities. We’ve already had a fair bit of… We have had this 25% correction in the S&P this year so far. Obviously, markets are trying to find some kind of bottom and they take every signal from the Fed of some kind of pause, they take that as a buying opportunity. But, it hasn’t worked out so well so far this year. How do you see the equity markets play out in all of this? Because I think that’s one thing you didn’t mention, so much, about your path to the next two or three years, but how do you see equities in all of this?

[00:30:27] Simon

I think where we’ve started a bear market rally, which has probably got some way to go yet. But, it is a bear market rally or dead cat bounce, whichever you like to call it. That will probably peter out before the end of the year. Then we revert back into big falls in equity markets.

We’ve got the S&P below 3000 in the first quarter of next year. What we’re going to see, with all the problems associated with an over leveraged and fragile financial system, the central banks will be turning back to flooding the system with liquidity again. That’s when the dollar not just comes of its perch, but starts falling really, very seriously, in the period to 2025, where we have the dollar index halving in value. Now this may also coincide with a string of developments such as oil producers in the Gulf deciding to no longer sell oil for dollars. We could see the appearance of the new currency, which is being put together by BRICS, plus SCO and EAEU which, basically, is based on the value of 20 commodities.

But those commodities are not valued in dollars. They’re valued in grams of gold. That’s another story. What you are going to see is a large part of the world saying, Thank you very much America, we no longer want your dollars. 

[00:32:49] Niels

Now, before we get to the commodity side, I just want to stay a little bit on the equity side.

You mentioned you can see the S&P below 3000. 

[00:32:58] Simon

Sorry, I should have added that, from the spring of next year until probably mid 2024 or the end of 2024, you are going to get what I call the last hurrah in equity markets parabolic rises, followed by the crash as we go into a depression era.

[00:33:23] Niels

And that is what’s interesting for me because I’ve heard that scenario from other people that I have a lot of respect for and that I’ve seen in the past have very accurate forecasts. My question on that is just simply, do you actually see that parabolic move actually be a move to a new all time high? That’s one question. The other question is, once we get past that, and then there are other people that I’ve heard and and seen analysis from where they really expect markets to go down by such a big percentage. We’re talking about 90% or so, where S&P is down in the 500, 600 level.

And this sounds crazy to a lot of people, but let’s not forget that NASDAQ fell 87% only 20 years ago. A lot of us can still remember that. I just wanted to find out from you, how extreme do you see that happening?

[00:34:26] Simon

To answer your question, yes, the all time high. To answer the second question, yes, we have crashes akin to what was experienced in 1929, 1932. 

[00:34:43] Niels

Okay, great. That makes it clear. 

Let’s move on to the commodity side, and I know we don’t have too much time today because it’s late where you are, but let’s move on to the commodities. They play a very important role. Now, in the beginning of the year when the Ukraine event started, or the conflict started, a lot of people came out from the commodity side saying, yep, this is the beginning of a new supercycle in commodities, just you wait and see. Everything was great for them in the first few weeks of March. Since then we’ve had, I would say, a meaningful selloff in many commodities. 

Let’s divide, maybe, the commodities into different things. We have energies, we have food, we have metals. Talk us through some of these different sectors and how you see that, and also whether you buy into this narrative as a commodity, supercycle, per se.

[00:35:39] Simon

First of all, to answer the last question first, we’re not in a commodity supercycle. We’re in a normal business cycle. You can’t have a commodity supercycle, if within three years, the world is going to hell in a basket. That’s point one. Point two, you have to come back to what I said earlier about weather patterns by 2027 or by 2030. Households, the consumers are going to be rebelling against the high prices of electricity because of the switch to renewables, EVs, et cetera. Even now, there’s a pullback in Germany towards EVs because the cost of filling your battery with electricity is greater than the cost of filling your tank with petrol or diesel.

So I don’t buy that cycle. It’s a business cycle, but you are going to see similar patterns emerging, in commodities, that we are likely to see in the equity market. The oil price this year should probably average $107. We have a world recovery, a little bit modest, but very inflationary in 2023 and 2024, and we’re probably going to see even more supply disruptions. So, we have an average price in 2023 of $130. and in 2024 of $170, 

[00:37:40] Niels

And that’s average price? 

[00:37:42] Simon

Those are prices, Yeah. 

Food, I’ve explained food.

Take amongst the base metals, take copper, we’ll probably see a short-term bear market rally that takes copper up to about $8,700 before the end of the year.

Then, in line with equity markets falling sharply, and physical consumption being weak in the first quarter, we’ll see prices probably down to $6,000. Then we get the impact of inflation, falling dollar, consumption recovering, added to which companies in the manufacturing chain, from the fabricator to the end user, replenishing and adding to their inventories.

Plus, financial institutions will see a falling dollar, and rising inflation. Commodities is one place they look to as a hedge, and that would be in the metals including copper. We go from $6,000 in the first quarter of next year, to a peak of somewhere around $14,000 before the end of 2024.

Then you kiss it all goodbye and say, Thank you very much. We’re now moving into depression years. Prices are going to completely collapse. 

[00:39:26] Niels

Of course a lot of people would say, “Well, we’re going to just jump into gold as the safe haven.” How do you see gold playing out?

[00:39:34] Simon

Gold is going to do what it’s always done, which is that it reflects the real value of everything.

Combine the fact that we see this resurgence in inflation. Gold will be bought, gold will be held. Add to that, a large part of the world will be back into a de facto gold standard, with commodities being valued in grams of gold and not in dollars. Don’t ask me what the price of gold will be, but it’ll be significantly higher than it is today. 

[00:40:25] Niels

So let me ask you a different question then. The question is that, say about a year ago, there was this huge debate about between the Bitcoiners and the gold box. A lot of the gold people would say, (and I guess the Bitcoiners would say more or less the same), “Oh, if we get inflation, or if we get uncertainty, and World War, these assets will go sky high.” None of them have gone up in price since. Obviously, Bitcoin has collapsed, gold has gone down, meaningfully. 

[00:40:58] Simon

Gold has only gone down in dollar terms.

[00:41:01] Niels

Right. That’s what I wanted to ask you. If you… 

[00:41:04] Simon

Look at the gold price in yen or euro or pound sterling terms, it’s gone up.

[00:41:12] Niels

Okay. I also heard you about the dollar, where you still think there’s some upside to it and then it’s going to collapse. It might even half which, of course, it’s happened before. This is not outrageous that we see these massive moves over time, but I wanted to ask you. Over here in Europe, where I’m based, I look at the Europe project, and I still call it a project because I’m actually not personally convinced, necessarily, that they can hold it all together given the stresses that we have in the system.

And so, when we hear people say, “Yeah, the dollar’s going to go down, it’s going to go down a lot,” it has to go down against something. I’m always thinking (at the moment at least), well, the other choices are not great either. So, how do you think about some of these other currencies like the Euro, and obviously we have the yen, which has been incredibly weak? We have the pound that has gone down a lot. 

Are these countries, or areas, suddenly going to get their act together and actually have currencies that are strong in their own right? Or how do we see this relationship? It’s fine to say the dollar’s going to go down, but it doesn’t mean other things are going to go up in the currency world.

[00:42:25] Simon

Certainly I think you’re going to see, in this period to say mid 2024, you’re going to see big rises in the euro and big rises in pound sterling. You’ll see big rises in the ruble. You’ll see big rises in the Chinese yuan. I think a currency to watch carefully over the next few years is the UAE’s dirham.

[00:42:57] Niels

Because of oil trade, I imagine. 

[00:43:00] Simon

Because of oil trade. I think that it is not going to be too long before they take the dirham off the peg to the US dollar, which will probably coincide when they start selling oil for other currencies. 

[00:43:20] Niels

Okay. Let’s move on to just maybe some of the last couple of questions then, and that is, given what you’ve laid out here today, what do people do from an investment point of view?

You could say, “Yeah, if I’m right, if I get the timing right, you just trade what I’ve said. You go long, you go short, et cetera, et cetera. I also come from (as I told you before we pressed record), I come from a world, and have spent my whole career, in telling people you can’t predict the future, and so you should invest following just price.

So, when people come out and say, “This is what’s going to happen,” usually they also know when they’re wrong or if they’re wrong, or if something changes. Because one thing, at least in my own experience with cycle work, yeah, cycles, the big cycles can be one or two; plus, minus a couple of years.

So, it’s very hard to trade cycles per se. How would you invest or protect your capital? And how would you know if the timing is right, or if the timing is wrong, to make some of these shifts that you would have to make, assuming you are right in terms of how it’s going to play out?

[00:44:42] Simon

First of all, I’m not a financial advisor.

[00:44:46] Niels

Neither am I, so that’s fine. 

[00:44:49] Simon

So, let’s forget that. I’m a strategist and I watch the dots all the time to see whether we are off track or whether we are on track. So far, we are on track. Until the dots change, I don’t change. 

[00:45:09] Niels

Okay. Fair enough.

Final two questions, Simon. Since it is late where you are I guess this might be a relevant question. What keeps you up at night? What are the things that you worry about the most in all of this that you are looking at? 

[00:45:27] Simon

How dangerous the world is financially and war mongering. I’m very concerned about things like the Davos crowd, how they’re trying to shape the world.

They may have bought the governments, which they probably have, but they’ve not bought the people, and the people have begun to rebel. 

[00:45:57] Niels

Okay. Fair. 

Final question really, and that is, we obviously had some limited time today and we tried to cover a lot of different areas. Final thought, what else should we have been talking about that we haven’t talked about at this point in our conversation? Is there something where you say, “Yeah, we need to just mention this part of the puzzle?”

[00:46:23] Simon

I think it comes back to what I’ve just mentioned, Claus Schwab and the devils crowd, how he’s trying to, with his elite members (who we better not name) how they’re trying to reshape the world. And I think they’re going to fail because, as I said before, you can buy the governments, but you can’t buy the people. 

[00:42:49] Niels

Let’s leave it with that. Simon this has been fascinating. This has been eye opening. We are certainly very grateful for your time today. We will, of course, link to your information and bio in the show notes.

People should go and follow your work. Absolutely. 

I’m going to leave it with that. As people can tell, we are living in a truly global, macro driven world. It is, perhaps, more important than ever before that you stay well informed.

From me, thanks ever so much for listening. We look forward to being back with you as this series continues on global macro issues.

In the meantime, Take care of yourself and take care of each other. 

[00:47:32] Ending

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